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Completed Trade: Washington and Minnesota

By GrandadB - League Admin
10/08/2018 2:47 pm
Washington sends:
Robert Engelmann (LDE)
Michael Norton (RB)
Donald Parent (LT)
2024 Round 3

Minnesota sends:
Wayne Bollinger (LDE)
David Kessel (CB)
Richard Ortiz (FS)
Zachary Howard (TE)

(This is an automated message. If you believe this trade warrants additional investigation, please contact the league admin.)

Re: Completed Trade: Washington and Minnesota

By Charivari
10/12/2018 3:32 pm
oah !

massive blockbuster trade !!!

Re: Completed Trade: Washington and Minnesota

By GrandadB - League Admin
11/03/2018 3:41 pm
This is a very good trade to evaluate how it rated using my player weights compared to AI default weights & rating and how it has turned out for both teams so far stat-wise.

Minnesota sends:
Wayne Bollinger (LDE) .... 76 vs AI default 69 , 6 sacks in 9 games so far this season. TS-153 8 yr vet
David Kessel (CB) .... 93 vs 89 and 6 yr vet in his prime, awesome CB, 33.8% CA & 2 ints. TS- 1125 6 yr vet
Richard Ortiz (FS) .... 80 vs 86, 28.6 catch allowed % so far for Wash! TS - 750 6 yr vet.
Zachary Howard (TE) .... 84 vs 93, 5 yr vet, killer TE, has not played yet, injury heal. TS - 2080 5 yr vet

Washington sends:
Robert Engelmann (LDE) ... 85 vs 91, 4 sacks/13 hurries for the Vikes this season. TS - 1260 7 yr vet.
Michael Norton (RB) ..... 81 vs 85, 890 yrd gained, 4.2 avg, 3 TDs. TS - 585 8 yr vet.
Donald Parent (LT) ..... 97 vs 91, 1 sack allowed on 325 pass blocks. TS - 2210 4 yr vet
2024 Round 3

Both Norton and Parent are playing better for the Vikes than they did for the Skins, Parent allowed 5 sacks on 194 pass blocks for the Skins this season. 1 sack on 325 pass blocks for the Vikes. Norton avg'd 3.2 on only 19 carries for the Skins. So both of those players were not doing much for the Skins.

Overall ..... my take on this is that the Skins skinned the Vikes on this trade. Gaining 2 elite DBs (both in the top 20 in league for catch allowed %) and an elite TE for an 8 yr vet RB that you can get as good as out of the FA pool and a very good 4 yr vet OL that was not performing well for the Skins. The Skins are currently 13-2 and leading their division compared to a previous season where they finished 7-9, great job fishing! The Vikes are competing for a WC spot at 8-7 from previous season at 6-10, also good job outdoor eli. The DE's in the trade were pretty much a wash, except in trade score (1200 vs 160 !!!) they are very equal in attributes and stats. So, that leaves it to whether or not it was worth trading the 2 DBs who are putting up super stats, and a TE yet to have an impact, which he should, for a RB, an OL, and a 3rd round pick that will be in the bottom 4 of the round based on the Skins current WL record and assuming they go to the CC game. Bottom line ... it is much harder to get elite DBs than it is RBs and OL, they are much more valuable.

What do you think? This is a good trade to get opinions on and to increase your trading knowledge. It involves position rank and importance, trade meter values, player ratings, and stats/performance. Do you agree with the trade meter values? Would also like to get input/feedback from the traders on this one, how do you feel about it at this point?

RBs ... to the point about what kind of RB you can get from FA and/or waivers. I picked up Jimmy Rocha off waivers last season, so far this season as my RB1 he has gained over 800 yds with a 4.1 avg/carry (same as Norton) and scored 7 TDs. He has caught 53 passes for 471 yds & 3 TDs. His AI default value is 62, my rating has him at 85, a major +23 point difference. How much is a RB that puts up a combined 10 TDs in 14 games worth? He also has a 31 yd KO return avg. on 14 returns. According to the AI trade meter, he is only worth 32 points. Which is why I tell everyone not to base your trades on the meter values and not to put a lot of $$/sal cap into high rated RBs. Right now you can go to the FA pool and get a good RB ... Wiley Garcia for example, and he's a rookie! He has 86 speed & 88 acceleration. Good pass catch & courage, so he should be good on the flat passes that are being thrown a lot in 4.3 The AI default has him at a very low 43 .... Ive got him at 74. Try him and post your results in this thread, you will be glad you picked him up, especially if you dont have a RB that is getting your 4 yds/carry. I would do a 6 yr contract for minimum salary/bonus. The minimum bonus is not much per year, so if there's any chance that a player is going to stay on your roster, you should set the contract years up to the 9 year mark. I will go further sometimes for OLs and DL who dont lose as much when they hit the 9 year mark.
Last edited at 11/03/2018 4:46 pm

Re: Completed Trade: Washington and Minnesota

By outdooreli
11/03/2018 11:20 pm
I appreciate your take. For me, this trade was all about need. I knew what I was giving up, but I was on a losing streak and needed to shake things up.

My DL was very, very bad, and I lost out on all of my attempts to sign anyone in FA. I was getting no pressure -- and with the new sim, no pressure = getting beat deep on every play. Even with my great CB (Kessel, who I got via trade so didn't have a cap hit to trade again) and FS (same deal), it made no difference if I couldn't rush the QB. Englemann is playing all three DL positions for me and while the numbers don't show it, there is a lot more push both on throws AND on outside runs, where my previous guys were getting beat badly.

On offense, my OL was almost as bad and again, I lost out in FA (to people paying $10M+ annual salaries to guys I had ranked in the 85 range -- not worth it). My QB was not getting any time to throw -- and with the new sim, no time = "that pass was poorly thrown" and quick throws to the RB that go nowhere. I needed a long term solution to RDE problems, and Parent solved that. Have you seen my QBs stats this year -- with a better line??!!?? -- just wait until I get some WRs for him to throw to.

Yes, the loss of Howard at TE was a big deal. But, sometimes you have to put in a guy to push the deal over the top. Washington and I had gone back and forth on about six different deals before we made this one final.

Norton has been a bit of a disappointment when you look at his stats, but there's something else you're not considering. At the halfway point this year, I decided that my game plan and plays weren't championship-caliber, so I switched up my playcalling and added a lot of plays that I hadn't run in this league but were successful in other leagues/other teams in MFN. Since then, Norton and the rebuilt OL have been fighting through a bunch of new plays that sometimes really don't work at all. It was surprising that I almost made it to the playoffs, since I had actually written off the rest of the year as a chance to get better at new plays.

All in all, this was a high-risk, high-reward deal for me and, really, I probably wouldn't have a better record had I not made this move. With a crappy DL and a useless OL, there's not much hope in this league.

Re: Completed Trade: Washington and Minnesota

By fishingnortheastdotnet
11/14/2018 10:16 am
Sorry for the late response, I do not always check the forums. I check the league chat but this league does not use it too often. Anywho.....I knew I had a competetive team but between the cap situation and a few glaring holes I was looking for specific changes. Change of scenery and schemes will sometimes benefit the players. I viewed it as better salary fit, better fit for my style of play, we each improved at each position that we picked up (minus Bollinger, although I liked his speed and attributes to give me that continued balance), and I got my targeted positions filled. All in all I think we both came out for the better, maybe it helped me more looking at this season's records but then again, schemes and play style come into play with that. He had zero speed at WR and that is huge. Had that hole been filled, chances are he would have been an 11 or 12 win team. I definitely appreciate the value and effort that is put forth in explaining trade values within the league. For 100% newbies it is very helpful, especially until they identify a strategy and understanding of how they are building their team.